The Holy Post

Despite the uproar over the leaked Supreme Court decision overturning Roe, it turns out 80 percent of Americans have a nuanced view of the issue. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss responses to last week’s show and ask why are we nuanced about some moral issues and absolutist about others. Then, conservative Christians are attacking Tim Keller for his winsome, non-partisan approach to Christianity. They say winsomeness may have worked in the past, but now the culture war is so dangerous that we need a more aggressive and offensive approach. Are they right? Skye interviews Eboo Patel, the founder and president of Interfaith America, about his new book “We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy.” Patel, a Muslim-American, talks about the transformative role Christianity had on his calling, why interfaith cooperation is essential, and what concerns him about the current culture of activism in America. Plus, scientists discover the Mariah Carey of jellyfish.

“Christian Asks” Patreon Bonus: https://www.patreon.com/posts/66555715/

News Segment

0:00 - Intro and updates
Christian’s documentary - https://thegirlwhoworefreedom.com
3:29 - News of the Butt
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bloody-belly-comb-jelly-pooping_n_625e59f1e4b066ecde16f302
10:03 - Responses to last week’s show
17:03 - Nuance versus absolutism
28:55 - Tim Keller and the war on winsomeness55:26 - Holy Post Patreon
http://patreon.com/holypost

Interview with Eboo Patel“We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy” - https://amzn.to/3MquyqO
Interfaith America - https://www.interfaithamerica.org57:30 - Eboo Patel - intro
59:20 - Background and calling
1:14:13 - Culture of activism in America
1:26:45 - Interfaith cooperation1:31:49 - CreditsResources and articles mentioned in news segment:
ProGrace: prograce.orgHoly Post Episode 254: Rethinking Our Response to Abortion with Angie Weszely - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLa-rjvjAtk“America’s Abortion Quandry,” Pew Research Center - https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/“Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/Tim Keller Twitter thread - https://mobile.twitter.com/timkellernyc/status/1520107742110834699James Wood, “How I Evolved on Tim Keller” - https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2022/05/how-i-evolved-on-tim-kellerSamuel D. James, “Is it Time to Move Past Tim Keller?” - https://samueldjames.substack.com/p/is-it-time-to-move-past-tim-keller?s=rDavid French, “A Critique of Tim Keller Reveals the Moral Devolution of the New Christian Right” https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/a-critique-of-tim-keller-reveals?s=rRod Dreher, “Tim Keller & Myxomatosis Christians” - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/tim-keller-david-french-myxomatosis-christians/

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP509.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

The leak of a draft ruling by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade has the entire country talking. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the overreactions from both the Left and Right, speculate about what a post-Roe America might look like, examine the complicated history of abortion including why many evangelicals originally supported Roe but then dramatically flipped on the issue, and share their hopes for what comes next.

Then, acclaimed historian Mark Noll talks about the 30th anniversary of his influential book, “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind.” In the early 1990s, Noll celebrated the strength of the evangelical church, but he warned about a dangerous shortage of evangelical scholars. Today, he fears the opposite. While evangelical scholarship has never been stronger, Noll is deeply concerned about an anti-intellectual church taken with conspiracy theories and partisan politics.

Patreon Bonus segment: https://www.patreon.com/posts/66264481/

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:31 - Supreme Court leak - initial reactions
8:49 - Changing views on abortion within evangelical Christianity
19:29 - Overreactions on both sides
33:48 - Upsides
42:55 - Downsides
47:32 - “The Southernization of the Pro-Life Movement”
Resources mentioned:
Advisory Opinions podcast - “Making Sense of the Supreme Court Leak”
Part 1: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court?s=r

Part 2: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court-8db?s=r

“If Roe is Overturned, Where Should the Pro-Life Movement Go Next?” by Tish Harrison Warren - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/08/opinion/abortion-roe-dobbs-pro-life.html

“Apocalypse Now: How the Left and Right Get Danger Wrong” by Michael Wear - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/april-web-only/political-apocalypse-christianity-right-left-evangelicals.html

“This Really Is a Different Pro-Life Movement” by Daniel K. Williams - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/south-abortion-pro-life-protestants-catholics/629779/

Sponsor
57:22 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Mark Noll
“The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind” - https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/8204/the-scandal-of-the-evangelical-mind.aspx

58:32 - Mark Noll intro
59:33 - Updated version - why now?
1:02:19 - Christian higher education
“We the Fallen People” by Robert Tracy McKenzie - https://amzn.to/3M7oHGO
1:08:50 - Fundamentalism and fear
1:15:33 - Evolution and CRT
1:26:08 - Christian curiosity
1:30:19 - Credits


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP508_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

In the 1980s, Frank Peretti’s best-selling novels about the spiritual war between angels and demons captivated evangelicals, but they also fostered a belief that anything out of step with conservative white Christianity was downright satanic. The podcast crew discuss their own experiences with Peretti’s books and how they’ve shaped today’s culture war—including a congresswoman’s recent statement that Catholics helping immigrants is proof the church is run by Satan. Then, Beth Allison Barr is back one year after the release of her provocative book “The Making of Biblical Womanhood,” to discuss what she’s learned from her critics as well as from her fans. And she offers pastoral advice for those struggling in patriarchal Christian communities. Plus, a family finds a tasty time capsule in their bathroom wall, and the underappreciated charms of Dubuque, Iowa.

Patreon Bonus: https://www.patreon.com/posts/65967806/

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:24 - Dubuque travelogues
8:10 - Tasty time capsule
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-family-finds-bag-preserved-mcdonalds-food-half-century-ago-ho-rcna26252

16:49 - Fantasy novels and satanic conspiracies
https://religionnews.com/2022/04/28/marjorie-taylor-greene-feuds-with-conservatives-catholics-over-satan-remarks-border-bishops-satan/https://www.vox.com/culture/23033782/frank-peretti-this-present-darkness-piercing-the-darkness-cultural-influence-moral-panic

46:56 - Patreon bonus plug
https://www.patreon.com/posts/65967806/

Interview with Beth Allison Barr

“The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth” book - https://amzn.to/3KNm8s0Postscript to book - http://cdn.bakerpublishinggroup.com/processed/book-resources/files/The_Making_of_Biblical_Womanhood_-_Postscript_Chapter.pdf?1650389860

47:53 Intro
48:31 - Journey with book
55:39 - History and theology
58:58 - Untangling cultural elements in scripture
1:03:29 - Hindsight and reflection on critiques
1:12:46 - Role of social media
1:15:59 - Three FAQs
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2022/03/ideas-about-women-matter-a-resource-list-for-women-in-church-history/
1:22:17 - Hope?

1:25:09 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP507_2.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in a case about a public high school football coach who prays on the field. Is he violating the First Amendment because he’s a state-funded employee engaging in religious activity on the job? Or, is his religious expression protected by the First Amendment? David French explains the court’s history on public school teachers and free speech, why he thinks the coach is likely to win, and why religious liberty protections have never been stronger. Then, French talks about his first encounter with Critical Race Theory as a law student at Harvard 30 years ago. Skye asks, if CRT has been around for so long, why is it only now being seen as a threat to both America and Christianity? French explains how the definition of CRT has changed, how it’s been leveraged by media voices on the political right since 2020, and why the issue of race may be leading to a new schism in the American church.

00:00 - Intro

00:45 - Football Prayer “Why We Fight About Football Prayers” - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/april-web-only/scouts-football-prayers-kennedy-bremerton-first-amendment.html

31:07 - CRT hysteria “How the Fight Over Critical Race Theory Became a Religious War” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/how-the-fight-over-critical-race?s=r

“Racial Compromise and Complicity at Grove City College” - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/racial-compromise-and-complicity?r=dfab0&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

1:04:05 - Credits

Direct download: FF8_1.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

The battle between Governor DeSantis and Disney is heating up in Florida. The culture war may be good for politicians, but why is it bad for Christians? Then, a former White House spokesperson says if Christians want to win the culture war they need to have more babies. Kaitlyn and Skye explain why that strategy contradicts the New Testament. Phil looks at Grove City College’s anti-CRT statement and why the school’s attack on Jemar Tisby amounts to revisionist history. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Rachel Anderson from the Center for Public Justice about her advocacy for paid family leave, why the policy is proven to reduce abortions, and how it fits with Christian theology and ethics. Plus, Phil is building a big beautiful wall.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
6:15 - DeSantis vs. Disney
25:36 - Christian babies and culture wars
https://www.salon.com/2022/03/30/kayleigh-mcenany-wants-more-christian-babies-its-an-overt-call-out-to-paranoia/

38:07 - Grove City College and Jemar Tisby
https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/racial-compromise-and-complicity?utm_medium=ios&s=r

Sponsor
47:57 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Rachel Anderson
Center for Public Justice: https://www.cpjustice.org
Families Valued Policy Resources: https://www.familiesvalued.org/resources-policy

49:08 - Interview intro
53:28 - Paid family leave policies overview
1:01:51 - Theological framework for paid family leave
1:04:25 - Defining family and its purpose
1:07:43 - Difficulties in implementing paid family leave policy in US
1:11:12 - Citizenship as a collective activity
1:16:22 - Resources

Direct download: HP506.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

In a lengthy article in The Atlantic, social psychologist Jonathan Haidt explains how social media has made our entire society more stupid in the last decade, and compares the disunity it’s causing to the Tower of Babel. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the article and what can be done to reverse the trends. Then, pastor Albert Tate talks about his new book, “How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation.” By sharing personal stories, Tate says we must learn to live with being offended, commit to community, and love anyway. Plus, teenage gorillas are getting too much screen time.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates
3:03 - Fasting from whiteness
https://religionnews.com/2022/04/08/chicago-area-pastor-says-his-church-is-fasting-from-whiteness-and-getting-pushback-during-lent/

6:16 - Gorillas, teens, and screen time
13:35 - Stupid social media
“Why the Past 10 Years of American Live Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Holy Post episode 495 with Robert Tracy McKenzie- https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie

Unbelievable? The Conference - https://www.unbelievable.live

Interview with Albert Tate
Albert Tate - https://alberttate.com
“How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation” - https://amzn.to/36s6e86

47:51 - Interview intro
49:42 - Committing to community
53:48 - Loving while offended
1:00:07 - When to stay and when to leave
1:04:29 - Generational trauma/injustice and generational privilege
1:18:09 - Hope for the American church
1:24:48 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP505.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Conservative political rallies and protests are increasingly using Christian worship music. How is this different than the role of faith in the Civil Rights movement, and why should Christians on all sides be cautious about attaching God’s name to their activism? Then, new data says Trump’s presidency dramatically altered attitudes about race and prejudice in America. And Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn respond to listener questions about last week’s episode on Disney and LGBTQ representation. Then, author and editor Drew Dyck is back for another round of media recommendations. This installment of “Dyck’s Picks” includes a book on deconstruction, some Easter-themed poetry, and a TV drama with something to say to the church about ethics and the culture war. Plus, beware of un-Lucky Charms.

News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
With God Daily: http://withgoddaily.com

5:22 - News of the Butt
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-investigates-lucky-charms-stomach-illness-reports-rcna23483

8:10 - Listener responses to last week’s episode
https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-503-woke-disney-teens-in-crisis-racial-reconciliation-with-derwin-gray

20:25 - Political worship rallies
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/christian-right-wing-politics.html

37:43 - Trump’s racial topography

Sponsor:
48:05 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Dyck’s Picks with Drew Dyck:
49:16 - Interview intro
51:31 - Pick 1: “Fractured Faith” by Lina AbuJamra
https://amzn.to/3xndQDN

1:1:15 - Pick 2: Yellowstone (TV series)
1:13:20 - Pick 3: “Bower Lodge” by Paul J. Pastor
https://amzn.to/3JNmyOB

1:19:23 - Final story: “With” by Skye Jethani
https://amzn.to/3uAFdZB

1:24:14 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP504.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

The feud between Florida’s governor and Disney is getting hotter with new leaked footage of a Disney executive speaking about the company’s goals for LGBTQ representation. What are both the Right and Left getting wrong in the debate, and why should we see sexual orientation and gender identity as different from race? Also, new studies show an alarming rise in mental health disorders among teens, but there’s some good news for those involved in religious communities. Plus, Derwin Gray is back to talk about his new book, “How to Heal our Racial Divide.” He shares how his church is taking the call for racial reconciliation “from the seats to the streets,” and why so many church leaders remain afraid to talk about race.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro and updates

3:30 - Disney controversy update

26:43 - Teen mental health https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/03/31/student-mental-health-decline-cdc/

31:34 - Religion, college, and mental health https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/opinion/religion-school-success.html

https://neurosciencenews.com/religious-accountability-wellbeing-20126/

Interview with Derwin Gray “How to Heal Our Racial Divide” - https://amzn.to/3JaWnkn

Derwin Gray - derwinlgray.com

45:44 - Intro

47:18 - Book overview

49:01 - Multiethnic churches and resistance from leaders

1:01:13 - Christian responsibility in fixing unjust systems

1:09:09 - Police

1:17:11 - Importance of mourning

1:26:24 - Credits

Other resources mentioned: Holy Post episode 458: “The Gospel Demands Multiethnic Churches” - https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-458-the-gospel-demands-multiethnic-churches

Derwin Gray’s IG live with former CMPD Chief, Kerr Putney: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAxrK4hJzLj/

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

Direct download: HP503.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

The conservative (and maybe Christian?) satire site Babylon Bee has had their Twitter account suspended for giving a trans woman their “Man of the Year” award. Babylon Bee says they’re being punished for speaking the truth, but are they just being mean? And an essay in the Washington Post by Christine Emba says our sexual ethic of consent alone isn’t working. Has she uncovered evidence that our secular culture is more receptive to Christian sexual ethics than we thought? Then Kaitlyn Schiess talks with author, poet, and English profess Daniel Bowman Jr. about his book, “On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity.” Bowman, who is on the spectrum himself, dispels myths about autism and offers helpful ideas about how we can love those in our families and communities who are neurodiverse. Plus, an update from the Animal News desk.

Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!) - https://www.patreon.com/holypost

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
2:54 - Animal News
https://relevantmagazine.com/culture/no-more-monkey-business-publix-will-stop-selling-coconut-milk-collected-from-enslaved-monkeys/

10:41 - Babylon Bee
19:39 - Sexual ethics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/17/sex-ethics-rethinking-consent-culture/

Sponsor
49:24 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Daniel Bowman Jr.

https://www.danielbowmanjr.com


“On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity” - https://amzn.to/3qJnpZC

50:33 - Interview intro and book overview
54:38 - Loving neighbor
58:32 - Neurodiversity and Own Voices
1:02:56 - Culture making
“Culture Making” by Andy Crouch - https://amzn.to/3JXvQII

1:07:33 - Autism and the church
1:14:55 - Bad Christian stories
1:19:10 - Loving people across space
1:22:29 - End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP502.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Before recently winning the NCAA women’s 500-yard freestyle swimming championship, Lia Thomas competed in the sport as a man. Should that matter? David French talks with Skye Jethani about the complexities of transgender rights, and why we need a more nuanced understanding of what “equal protection” means in the law. Then, French says the real divisions in our culture and politics aren’t primarily between Republicans and Democrats, or between conservatives and progressives, but between a traditional understanding of liberalism and the dangers of illiberalism.

0:00 - Intro
0:48 - Trans athletes
“What Do We Do When People Are Equal, But Not Alike?” (David French article) - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/what-do-we-do-when-people-are-equal?s=r

34:28 - Liberalism and illiberalism
1:02:45 - EndHoly Post Patreon (now with book club!) - patreon.com/holypost

Direct download: FF7.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Florida is the latest front in the culture war with a controversial bill to prevent teachers from speaking to children about the existence of same-sex couples or transgender people. But is the bill so vague that it could also prevent schools from acknowledging opposite-sex married couples too? The crew breaks down the intent, and the possible side effects, of Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” law. And, what does Disney’s response to the controversy tell us about where the wider culture is heading?

Then, pastor and president of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition (NALEC), Rev. Dr. Gabriel Salguero, joins Skye for a conversation about the growing influence of Latinos within evangelicalism. He says the diverse perspectives of Latino Christians offers the white church a “view from below,” and promises to bring renewal to the American church, but we shouldn’t romanticize the movement either. Plus, an example of Christian Nationalism in the wild, and goats go to church.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
5:21 - Animal News
https://www.al.com/news/2022/03/baaaaaaad-goats-break-into-alabama-church-shatter-glass-door.html

7:52 - An example of Christian nationalism
https://www.christianpost.com/voices/is-this-our-last-chance.html

19:49 - Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill
30:13 - Disney’s response

Sponsor
41:03 - Abide
abide.co/holypost

Interview with Gabriel Salguero

National Latino Evangelical Coalition: https://nalec.org
Gabriel Salguero: https://twitter.com/PastorsSalguero

42:14 - Interview start
45:36 - Latino evangelical experience in America
50:32 - Shared challenges
53:47 - Future of the church and evangelicalism
1:03:51 - Navigating recent tumultuous times
1:17:27 - Hope for the future

Other resources mentioned:
“The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” (David Brooks article) - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html

Direct download: HP501.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 10:30am CDT

The gang’s all here! Phil, Skye, Christian, & Kaitlyn are all in the studio for the first time ever to record this very special episode of the Holy Post. They retell the show’s origin story dating all the way to Phil’s talkshow dreams in the 1980s, how that accidentally gave rise to VeggieTales, why Skye got roped into the scheme, how Christian went from TV producer to podcast co-host, and how Kaitlyn is leveraging her new Holy Post notoriety. The crew then countdown the Top 10 stories of the last 10 years, and speculate about what the future holds for faith in America. Featuring original songs by Phil, voice messages from the audience, and a mythological Inuit knife, this is an episode for the ages!

Holy Post Quiz Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgIOoK0BpkY

Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!): patreon.com/holypost

Episode 500 merch: holypost.com/shop

Special thanks to: Waylon Klix, creator of brick characters included on episode 500 art card and in the video; Ellie Kleinsasser, creator of episode 500 merch design; and all our Patreon supporters who submitted voice messages! (For time’s sake, we couldn’t include all the voice messages we received, but we loved listening to every one that came in.)

0:00 - Intro song
00:42 - Voice messages: Shelby, Jared, Edgar
02:31 - Holy Post origin story
23:33 - News of the Butt
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X19305371

28:26 - Voice messages: JT, Jere
29:50 - Sponsor - Abide
http://abide.co/holypost
31:01 - Announcements
32:47 - Voice messages: Quinn, David
34:23 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 1
“Facts Are Our Friends: Why Sharing Fake News Makes Us Look Stupid and Harms Our Witness” (Ed Stetzer) - https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/299041-facts-friends-sharing-fake-news-makes-us-look-stupid-harms-witness.html

52:20 - Voice messages: Michael, Catherine, Sarah, Ethan
55:21 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost
56:31 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 2
“Justice” video (Bible Project) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A14THPoc4-

“Struggling with Evangelicalism” book (Dan Stringer) - https://amzn.to/3MTixL5

1:15:20 - “Crazy” song
1:17:20 - Looking ahead
1:27:59 - Voice messages: Raphael, Rick, Laura, Denise
1:31:01 - End


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP500.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Some Southern Baptists say if Voddie Baucham becomes the next president of the SBC it will be a step toward racial reconciliation. When Phil disagreed in a tweet last weekend, it triggered a social media tsunami. He responds to the controversy. Then, the Holy Post crew discusses Jemar Tisby’s recent article about how the murder of Trayvon Martin ten years ago ended white evangelicalism’s efforts at racial reconciliation. But was the movement flawed from its beginning in the 1990s? Then, Skye has a wide-ranging conversation with author and conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks. They cover recent efforts to rescue evangelicalism from politics, the loss of optimism in the 21st century, our naïveté about democracy, how the world is reacting to the war in Ukraine, and why the church needs to make spiritual formation more challenging not less.

 

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
01:59 - Pat Robertson
4:48 - Phil’s Twitter tsunami
11:21 - The end of racial reconciliation?
 
“Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/trayvon-martins-murder-and-the-death?utm_source=url&s=r
 
Sponsor
51:10 - Abide
abide.co/holypost
 
Interview with David Brooks
52:22 - Interview intro
54:06 - “Dissenters” article
58:39 - Social trust and technology
1:03:16 - “The Dark Century” article
1:05:22 - Lost view of humanity
1:13:09 - Reactions to the war in Ukraine
1:18:43 - Institutions and spiritual formation
1:26:02 - End
 
“The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html
 
 
 
 
David Brooks books mentioned:
“The Social Animal” - https://amzn.to/3vYb8E2
 
“Bobos in Paradise” - https://amzn.to/3pO5AIB
 
“The Road to Character” - https://amzn.to/378B7yh
 
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
 
Direct download: HP499_F2.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and the heroic resistance the Russian troops have encountered raises new questions about patriotism. When is love for our country godly, and when does it unknowingly lead to evil? Plus, a new study tries to define Christian nationalism, explain why Black and White Christian nationalists are so different, and advise how to prevent the heresy from spreading in churches. Then, David Kinnaman, President of the Barna Group, is back for another “Barna Brief.” His latest research finds over 70 percent of pastors are very concerned about the spread of Christian nationalism, but most aren’t sure what to do about it. And - why measuring church attendance says almost nothing about a church’s spiritual health or effectiveness at making disciples.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro
4:20 - Ukraine and patriotism
February French Friday episode - https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-putin-pentecostals-christian-nationalism

Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie- https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie

23:50 - Christian nationalism and race
“Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021 Insurrection” report - https://bjconline.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Christian_Nationalism_and_the_Jan6_Insurrection-2-9-22.pdf

“Theology Cannot Save Us” article - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/february-web-only/christian-theology-evangelicalism-cannot-save-us.html

“Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” article - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/trayvon-martins-murder-and-the-death?utm_source=url&s=r

Sponsor
47:51 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Barna Brief with David Kinnaman:
49:44 - Interview start
51:40 - Reception to data on pastors
53:59 - Measuring effectiveness of discipleship
1:14:03 - Pastors’ concerns about Christian nationalism
1:23:40 - End

To learn more about Barna’s initiatives for supporting pastors, go to Barna.com/ResilientPastor

Direct download: HP498_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

During the Cold War, conservatives prided themselves for their opposition to the Soviet Union and totalitarianism and blasted those who wavered as “un-American.” In the current crisis in Ukraine, however, we have seen some conservatives defending Putin and Russia. What happened? David French tries to explain why some Republicans and evangelicals foolishly see Putin as a hero and defender of Christendom. Then he discusses his recent article about the rise of Christian Nationalism. Why is it so appealing among independent, Pentecostal churches, how is it spreading beyond those circles, and why are educated, elite Christian leaders reluctant to speak up about it?

0:00 - Intro 
3:01 - Crisis in Ukraine“Burning Straw Men by the Bushel”- https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/burning-straw-men-by-the-bushel?utm_source=url

Putin’s February 21 address - http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828

We’re All Ukrainians Now” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/were-all-ukrainians-now?utm_source=url

31:13 - Rise of Christian nationalism“The Seeds of Political Violence Are Being Sown in Church” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-seeds-of-political-violence-are?utm_source=url

Direct download: FF6.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Why do black seminarians graduate with a lot more student debt than whites, and what does it mean for churches? A recent Gospel Coalition article by Alisa Childers argues that the word “deconstruction” is universally bad and should not be redeemed. Is she right or is it another example of Christians overreacting to a complicated issue?

Then Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn take Childers’ online quiz to determine whether they are progressive Christians. Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren talks to Skye about her controversial New York Times column saying it’s time to end online streaming worship services, and she argues that the pro-choice movement is hypocritical for not making the choice to keep a child easier. Plus, Phil shares his hard won wisdom about what not to post on Twitter.

News Segment

0:00 Intro
3:56 - Trucker protests in Canada
6:55 - COVID death rate graph
https://twitter.com/philvischer/status/1495044505363492866

14:42 - Black seminarians graduating with more debt
https://religionnews.com/2022/02/17/black-seminary-grads-with-debt-higher-than-others-cope-with-money-and-ministry/

Glenn Packiam interview: https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-496-the-embrace-of-tyrants-the-despair-of-pastors

26:43 - Deconstruction
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/redeem-reconstruction/

Interview with Tish Harrison Warren

“The Systemic Realities Created by Legal Abortion” article - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/opinion/roe-legal-abortion.html

“Why Churches Should Drop Their Online Services” article -
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/opinion/church-online-services-covid.html

49:41 - Guest intro
51:40 - Abortion and a broken system
55:50 - Feminism and abortion
1:00:23 - Online worship services
1:01:42 - Importance of embodied worship
1:06:04 - Technology in community
1:18:25 - Pushback from people unable to attend services
1:29:37 - End

Other Links/Resources:
https://tishharrisonwarren.com/
“Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life” book - https://amzn.to/3IbFy9l

Patreon Bonus Segments:
Full abortion conversation with Tish Harrison Warren - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62922779/
Bonus news story - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62922997/

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP497_F1.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

A scary number of Americans now say violence may be necessary to fix the country. A new report looks at what combination of beliefs cause a person to endorse political violence, and why it’s more common on the right. Then, in response to last week’s interview, Phil unpacks how our modern belief in human goodness explains the rise in authoritarianism and populism. And, why are U.S. Christians supporting the “Freedom Convoy” in Canada? A recent study from Barna found more than one-third of pastors have seriously considered leaving ministry in the last year. What’s behind this crisis? Is the problem our culture, church members, how we’ve structured ministry, or is it pastors themselves? Skye talks to Glenn Packiam about his new book, “The Resilient Pastor,” and why it’s time to reexamine our assumptions about the church and its leadership. Plus, scientists create an artificial fish powered by love.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro/updates from the crew
4:44 - Valentine’s Day
6:39 - Animal News
https://newatlas.com/robotics/biohybrid-fish-human-heart-cells/

13:08 - Recap: Last week’s interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie
https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie

18:08 - Study: Moral divisions and authoritarian leaders
https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/study-provides-first-evidence-of-a-causal-link-between-perceived-moral-division-and-support-for-authoritarian-leaders-62479

36:36 - Beliefs leading to endorsement of political violence
https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/victimhood-racial-identity-and-conspiracism-interact-with-christian-nationalism-to-lead-to-support-for-violence-62589
David French piece: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-seeds-of-political-violence-are

50:53 - News segment wrap-up

Sponsor
53:04 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Glenn Packiam“The Resilient Pastor” - https://amzn.to/34WGgbK
https://www.barna.com/resilient-pastor/

54:17 - Interview intro
56:19 - “Pastor” definition and recent Barna stats
1:00:07 - Glenn Packiam’s story/pilgrimage
1:04:02 - Tension in how pastors spend their time
1:13:44 - Authority
1:21:10 - Slowing down
1:28:10 - What’s next?

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP496_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Should churches stop live-streaming their services and return to in-person worship? A recent editorial by Tish Harrison Warren has gotten a lot of negative reactions from chronically ill and disabled people who value online worship. What does the debate say about our theology of the church? ABC has suspended Whoopi Goldberg for her comments about race and the Holocaust. Is Judaism a race, a religion, an ethnicity, or something else?

 

Some Christians are praising Stephen Colbert for talking about how his faith informs his comedy on his talk show, while others are criticizing him for not explicitly sharing the gospel. Who’s right? And David Brooks’ recent NY Times article about the evangelical leaders trying to save their movement makes the Holy Post crew ask—When do we try to fix a ministry and when do we leave it? Then, Skye talks to history professor Robert Tracy McKenzie about his new book “We the Fallen People” about what the Founders really believed about democracy and the virtue of the American people. He explains how Americans lost the Founders’ belief in human depravity and exchanged it for a false gospel that affirms the inherent goodness of people and democracy, and how that explains the challenges we are now experiencing in our politics.

News Segment:
 
0:00 - Intro
4:29 - Should churches stop live-streaming services?
Skye’s video, “Why You’re Sick of Church” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TqmTugUfT0
16:52 - Whoopi Goldberg’s comments on race and the Holocaust
26:01 - Stephen Colbert on faith and comedy
36:47 - Institutions - when to fix and when to leave
 
Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie:
“We the Fallen People: The Founders and the Future of American Democracy” - https://amzn.to/3gvwP5J
Patreon Bonus Interview - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62311740/
56:04 - Interview Start
57:57 - “Democratic gospel” definition
1:02:02 - Founders’ beliefs about democracy and human nature
1:12:46 - “The Great Reversal”
1:20:21 - Jackson and unchecked democracy
1:23:22 - Christianity and partisanship
1:26:03 - Imperial presidency concerns
1:30:08 - End
 
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Direct download: HP495_F1.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Jerry Falwell Jr. is doing damage control following his profile in Vanity Fair (discussed at length in last month’s French Friday episode). He’s even posted a statement of faith affirming his Christian beliefs. But does that make his behavior better or worse? And how does populism explain his criticism of “religious elites” while enjoying all the benefits of being a religious elite? Is Falwell the victim of nepotism, and should ministry be a family business? Then, a researcher argues that a toxic reaction to the Religious Right can explain a bunch of cultural, political, and religious trends—including the rise of the “nones” and unchecked conspiracy theories. And data suggests Democrats project their moral belief onto their candidates, while Republicans adopt the moral beliefs of their candidates. Then, Skye talks to Dan Kimball about his book and video series, How Not to Read the Bible, about why it’s critical for churches to welcome questions and doubts, and how the biblical ignorance of leaders is driving young people to find answers outside the church.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates from the crew
8:22 - Falwell fallout
https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1486903286556938241?s=20&t=XaamDWl84N8x0qY4wbtRtwhttps://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall

January French Friday episode: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership

25:39 - Article: “The backlash against rightwing evangelicals is reshaping American politics and faith”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/25/the-backlash-against-rightwing-evangelicals-is-reshaping-american-politics-and-faith

44:10 - Study on political candidates and moral beliefs
https://www.psypost.org/2022/01/new-study-indicates-republicans-revised-their-moral-beliefs-to-be-more-in-alignment-with-donald-trump-62439

Sponsor
51:40 - Faithful Counseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Dan Kimball
52:53 - Interview start and intro
55:41 - Personal stories that led to the book/series
1:02:04 - Church as a factor
1:05:02 - Broader culture as a factor
1:15:24 - Personal conversion story
1:21:16 - Exclusivity issue
1:31:19 - End

Resources mentioned:
hownottoreadthebible.com

“How (Not) to Read the Bible: Making Sense of the Anti-women, Anti-science, Pro-violence, Pro-slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture” - https://amzn.to/3HmHviQ

“How (Not) to Read the Bible” Study Guide plus Streaming Video - https://amzn.to/3ujSIwT

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP494_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

He was the president of the largest Christian university and an influential political voice for millions of evangelicals. In a lengthy new Vanity Fair profile, however, Jerry Falwell Jr. now says he has contempt for “organized religion” and “religious elites.” David French and Skye Jethani discuss the shocking claims Falwell makes about Liberty University, how he lived a double life, and what his downfall says about American evangelicalism. Do Falwell and other disgraced leaders represent a bug or a feature of evangelicalism, and are ministries protecting bad or abusive leaders because they’re focused on the wrong fruit? Then, what’s the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and why is reforming it essential to protect American democracy?

 

0:00 - Start
0:21 - STORY 1: Vanity Fair profile of Jerry Falwell Jr.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall

4:17 - Falwell in context
8:16 - Victim or villain?
13:16 - Broader institutional implications
21:05 - Bug or feature?
27:14 - Measuring the wrong fruit
47:19 - An antidote: Being known
53:22 - STORY 2: Electoral Count Act reform
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/stop-screwing-around-and-reform-the
1:06:33 - End

Direct download: FF5_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

A new study finds evangelicals see most thing in society in categories of good and evil while nonbelievers see more nuance. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the implications. Bob Jones University has a fashion design department. What could possibly go wrong? Pretty much everything when a student discovered his androgynous Jesus coat was a fundamentalist fashion faux pas. Then, art historian Matthew Milliner talks about his new book “The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations.” Milliner explains the arrogance and injustice of progressivism, and the surprising story of Christianity among indigenous North Americans that rarely gets told. Plus, 100 monkeys on a truck and drunks on a plane.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
3:29 - Animal News
https://apnews.com/article/oddities-pennsylvania-monkeys-animals-52100c02527985f7dde4674724bb3332

8:16 - News of the Butt
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/us/covid-flight-passenger-violent.html

16:34 - Fundamentalist fashion faux pas
https://baptistnews.com/article/how-a-students-fashion-design-project-upset-the-created-order-at-bob-jones-university/#.Ye7fBS1h1B0

39:50 - Can society be split into good and evil?
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/12/21/christians-religiously-unaffiliated-differ-on-whether-most-things-in-society-can-be-divided-into-good-evil/https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/the-yuck-factor/580465/

Sponsor
51:40 - This episode is sponsored by Abide: http://abide.co/holypost

Interview with Matthew Milliner
“The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations” - https://amzn.to/3tY6PYx

52:44 - Interview Start/Intro
54:45 - Why this book?
1:01:27 - Chesterton’s worldview
1:08:00 - Progressivism then and now
1:15:08 - Christianity in native cultures
1:22:18 - Indigenous symbols
1:30:29 - EndOther resources mentioned:
“Orthodoxy” by G.K. Chesterton - https://amzn.to/3G1TYGY“Dream Catchers” by Philip Jenkins - https://amzn.to/3FZJJDm

“One Church, Many Tribes” by Richard Twiss - https://amzn.to/3AuRksc

“Mixed Blessings” edited by Tolly Bradford & Chelsea Horton - https://amzn.to/35oZgjq

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP493.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

To commemorate MLK Day, Phil asks Esau McCaulley if we’re making progress on race or if we’ve gone backwards in the last few years. His answer might surprise you. Skye then interviews Old Testament professor, David T. Lamb, about the updated version of his book, “God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?” Lamb argues that if read correctly, we’d discover the Old Testament is surprisingly progressive rather than barbaric. Also this week, controversy erupts as after school Satan clubs sponsored by The Satanic Temple pop up in elementary schools with Good News clubs. And, a country music star withdraws his support from a Christian school that teaches racism is a reality. Plus, scientists discover sea slugs have an interesting party trick.

 

News Segment
0:00 - Start
2:41 - News of the Butt
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-sea-slug-can-chop-off-its-head-and-grow-an-entire-new-body-twice1/

14:25 - After School Satan Club
https://www.ourquadcities.com/news/local-news/debate-continues-over-satanic-club-set-to-meet-thursday-at-qc-elementary-school/

22:19 - John Rich angry about school materials discussing racism
https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/john-rich-is-angry-about-lipscomb-academys-dean-of-intercultural-development/article_d0e7797a-9a3c-5f86-8e8c-fba6dba38951.html

Interview with Esau McCaulley
Website: https://esaumccaulley.com
“Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope” - https://amzn.to/3FA3H7m

35:05 - Interview Start
36:14 - Reflecting on the last 18 months
41:51 - Where the white evangelical church is now
51:04 - Being part of the solution

Sponsor
1:00:16 - Faithful Counseling
Thanks to Faithful Counseling for sponsoring this episode: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Announcement
1:01:29 - Livestream with Josh Packard: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Interview with David T. Lamb
Website: https://davidtlamb.com/
“God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?” (Expanded Edition) - https://amzn.to/3GH5s49

1:02:52 - Intro/Interview start
1:04:37 - Understanding the Old Testament as progressive
1:15:49 - The issue of collective justice
BONUS INTERVIEW (Polygamy in the Old Testament): https://www.patreon.com/posts/61346792/

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP492_F1.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Last week, the country commemorated the one-year anniversary of the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn examine what’s changed, and what hasn’t, since the attack and what impact it’s had on both Christians and our culture. They also respond to Samuel Perry’s article about the way Christian Nationalism threatens democracy. Then, Skye talks to Australian theologian Michael Bird about the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. While Christians throughout the world affirm the Bible’s inerrancy, Bird says American Evangelicals uniquely see the doctrine as “the one ring to rule them all.” He documents many cases where inerrancy isn’t used to defend the Bible, but a particular interpretation of the Bible. Also this week—goldfish chauffeurs and the Japanese invent a finger-nibbling robot to “free all humanity.”

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
3:05 - Scientists teach goldfish how to drive
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/01/07/goldfish-drive/9131026002/

9:13 - Finger-nibbling robots
https://www.ubergizmo.com/2022/01/yakai-engineering-amagami-ham-ham/

12:48 - Anniversary of January 6th Capitol attacks
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/opinion/jan-6-christian-nationalism.html
https://religionnews.com/2022/01/05/violence-isnt-the-only-way-christian-nationalism-endangers-democracy/

Interview with Michael F. Bird

“Saving Inerrancy from the Americans?” article - https://michaelfbird.substack.com/p/saving-inerrancy-from-the-americans

“Seven Things I Wish People Knew About the Bible” book - https://amzn.to/33pYLV6

47:40 - Intro/Interview Start
50:44 - Inerrancy vs. infallibility
57:21 - American evangelicalism and inerrancy
1:07:46 - Global church and inerrancy
1:11:26 - Authorities of scripture, interpretation, and historic church doctrine
1:20:42 - Perspectives from the global church on other issues
1:27:21 - Interview End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Direct download: HP491_F.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:00am CDT

Phil experienced a Twitter typhoon last week when he suggested “love your country” is not a Biblical command. The Holy Post crew unpacks the reactions and asks what separates godly and ungodly patriotism. Then, Skye talks to Christine Caine, founder of The A21 Campaign, about her experience of American evangelicalism as an Australian Pentecostal. With decades of experience in ministry around the world, and working against human trafficking in 14 countries, Caine says she was shocked by what she found in the American church, and advocates for more listening and cooperation with Christians in other traditions and cultures. Also this week, a Japanese professor invents a TV you can taste, and a town in the UK is terrorized by a bloodthirsty squirrel.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro and updates
4:29 - Squirrel rampage
https://nypost.com/2021/12/29/squirrel-from-hell-injures-18-during-48-hour-biting-spree/

8:36 - Lickable TV
https://www.reuters.com/technology/lick-it-up-japan-professor-creates-tele-taste-tv-screen-2021-12-23/

15:16 - ERLC clarification
17:38 - Critiquing our own team and purpose of the Holy Post
27:59 - Phil’s Twitter discussions on love of country
46:10 Sponsors


Thanks to the sponsors of this week’s episode:


Faithful Counseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Abide: abide.co/holypost

Interview with Christine Caine:
A21 organization: https://www.a21.org48:36 - Interview Start
49:49 - Experience in Pentecostal church
55:28 - Church celebrity culture
1:05:02 - Healthy skepticism
1:09:12 - Cross-tradition interaction & the global church
1:25:17 - Ending

Direct download: HP490_F1.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 9:29am CDT

1